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Post by BALLS OF STEEL on Jan 30, 2013 15:50:22 GMT -5
As a few of you may already know, I have been working on scripting a new method of aquiring gear from vaults.
This new system will be replacing the set loot with items that have randomised properties - no vault run will be the same again!
I will be happy to discuss the specifics in another forum post if I see enough interest.
As a result of this change, we would like to archive the player vaults.
This means we will put the character files into a ZIP archive (They will not be deleted) and everyone will re-create their characters from scratch.
We would like your opinions on whether we should do this, or whether you would rather we kept the player vault as it is.
The reason we want to 'wipe' the vault is to eliminate any advantage or disadvantage brought by the use of the 'old' items.
NOTE : The Gelzburg Boss items will not be changed, only the vault drops.
Please feel free to discuss the poll below and take note that it will be locked on 1/3/2013 for the votes to be counted
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Post by gatalis on Jan 30, 2013 23:09:00 GMT -5
I'm good with the vault wipe idea, though I think the main concern is long-standing players and how it'd affect them. For instance, I had put a large time sink into Claire and Jacia, some people even more, and while I should look at it as a sort of "new server" experience, I keep seeing it as losing something.
I feel like there should be some sort of "reimbursement" option along with the wipe... Maybe not for gear perse, as gear would be getting deleted afterall, but for levels and such. Like a "You can recreate a character, and it'll start off with # vault keys and # levels." (maybe not -all- levels to keep things from becoming imbalanced really quickly, but half? Slightly more?) Hell, it's up to you guys if they'd even be required to create the -same- character to get those things.
... So yeah. I'm good with a fresh start and all, but I know a lot of folks would feel like it's punishment, I think a reimbursement option would satisfy a good few more towards the fresh start idea while not making it seem like oldies are being punished necesarily.
EDIT: I guess the way I'm looking at it; fresh starts mean more balance and easier to handle issues. It solves more problems than it creates.
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Post by Bumlader on Jan 31, 2013 0:39:31 GMT -5
You see, my only problem with this whole thing is that it's vague on what's going to happen.
The only reason why I voted no, is because I do not know what's going to happen to those who wasted their time grinding to their hearts content to get an ascension item. Thus it was a waste of their time to even try in the first place to..well, not to be blunt..Play if there stuff is going to be wiped. My problem is also mages like Vesur wasted countless of days trying to find/create scrolls for their spellbook. So thus, this is why I say it is vague, what will happen to everyone's hard work? What're we going to do with past event or bio's? Are we going to delete most of our past and start from scratch again?
Now I would be voting yes only if these questions were replied with good detail on X and Y reasons. However, I find that erasing the characters is something is something I think we should sway away, and just find a way to put them at level 1 and delete all the items in their inventory if possible. In my opinion, I know we're trying to make the vaults useful again, but what're the old players going to get? We've bashed them on grinding, we've bashed them on going AFK, and we've bashed them on many other things..They should at least get something out of this for staying on and still being eager, no?
EDIT
Replying to Gatalis, like I said, people put a hell lot of time into their characters and having them wiped in my eyes is not worth it. Now your last statement is correct, it solves more problems then it creates, but it STILL makes people lose interest and you know..Don't want to play because they lost EVERYTHING, it dis encourages their will to play. Ton of servers tried doing and it died, but before we start saying "But what about Fox era?" I'd answer the question but don't really want too.
And for the reimbursement idea, it sounds and is a good idea, but then we STILL slice between Old and New. This is the SAME reason why I hate the RP tokens because it slices up RP into four quarters. So thus...What can we do for the older players without separating new and old??
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Post by xkcdapostle on Jan 31, 2013 5:15:12 GMT -5
You'd be wiping out Bardo's stock... Think of all the lost revenue!
What I question is the 'need' for a reset. There are ways of checking a players inventory when they log on any server. The module's enter script already checks the player's inventory for class specific items and hands them out if the player doesn't have them. There would be no issue with creating a script to remove specific items, especially with the regular expression features that nwscript has. This script would also be better in the long run, as it would allow the admin of the module to control what items they allow on the server. Besides, a vote for deleting the character vault sounds like all the options available were not considered fully.
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Post by BALLS OF STEEL on Jan 31, 2013 6:17:16 GMT -5
I would like to reiterate that the player vault will not be deleted, merely archived and stored (so that it can be restored at a later date if necessary).
It seems I neglected to add a few alternative options to the poll. It is entirely possible for me to simply strip all items, all levels, a portion of levels, a portion of items or any combination of levels and items imaginable
If I allowed players to keep their badges and levels, would the prospect seem more palatable to some of you?
(Remember - you can retract your vote at any time if you wish to vote again)
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Post by Avvy on Jan 31, 2013 11:25:51 GMT -5
The vote is purely to get player input on the one idea as it is. Would you be okay with starting from scratch.
Once I've seen where players are on that idea I can work from there.
As for writing a script to remove items, yes, I could, but that would involve over 100 items, and that seems very silly.
We have discussed different options. Those options will come into play after this initial poll. Just because this poll doesn't have all the options in it doesn't mean we haven't looked at them, it means this one is about a specific one. Judging from this poll and what people have put in it then I can tailor the next one around that.
It's going to be a little while before the server can go up, for a variety of reasons that I won't go into in this thread. If people want to know what's up I'll happily go over it elsewhere.
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Post by xkcdapostle on Jan 31, 2013 12:01:48 GMT -5
Some scripts would need data for all 100 items you're removing. Better written scripts would need far less data through use of the regular expression facilities provided by the nwscript library.
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Post by Taric on Jan 31, 2013 17:06:26 GMT -5
I'm cool with restarting chars, but I agree with Gatails. How about something like an xp bank?(OOCly) At first level and only, characters can retrieve xp from their other chars. But they would need to be deleted because they had there zombie kills, and their items and get an unfair head start.
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Post by Bumlader on Jan 31, 2013 21:26:45 GMT -5
I'm cool with restarting chars, but I agree with Gatails. How about something like an xp bank?(OOCly) At first level and only, characters can retrieve xp from their other chars. But they would need to be deleted because they had there zombie kills, and their items and get an unfair head start. You see, there is one big problem with this and that is - People can easily re-earn items making this pointless. Honestly, i'd rather have the characters -ALL- restarted then to lose the items. It makes everyone start equally. |
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Post by BALLS OF STEEL on Feb 1, 2013 8:26:11 GMT -5
We were willing to give a 1000 exp reward for posting your character to the biography section as a part of the new server launch, which would allow you to start the game at level 2 if you were willing to regester on our forums
Edit
On a further note, if this goes ahead there will be another poll afterwards to decide the specifics of exactly how much of your character you want kept.
And just to reiterate; You wont lose ascension items, the characters will not be deleted and you can change your vote at any time before the first of march!
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Post by xkcdapostle on Feb 1, 2013 9:19:50 GMT -5
If the character is not deleted, then where will it be put in the filesystem?
Is it to be moved into a zip/rar/tar.gz in another area of the computer?
Or is the intention to simply level all characters to level one by use of a utility program or some script to delevel the characters?
I simply think that the suggested solution is too drastic and is looking to the playerbase to justify its use. Since the goal here is to remove items that are not supposed to be on the module, not to remove the characters that make the server.
I believe that if the Server Team felt that this solution was the right one, then it would not hesitate in employing it. Rather than making it so that the players are responsible for the Server Team's decisions by culpability through a vote about one aspect of their plan.
If the team is not confident or able to consider alternative solutions then I suggest that they consider outside help to advise them or ask someone to do it from the other recommended scripters in the list I provided Avvy in my notice of resignation.
I would also hope that if the Server Team are allowing the players to decide then they are not participating in this vote. Since this is for the players to decide and the team to implement. If any member of the Team participated then it could be construed as unfairness and a pointless vote for the Team to allow the players to decide on.
I also hope that the team will only end the vote when the numbers participating in it are above a justifiable threshold. Since if the vote was decided by less than a third of the players registered here, then it can hardly be called a fair vote.
I am not against the notion of a new system being implemented, I am simply opposed to the implementation in removing the remnants of an old system. I am very willing to discuss my script solution with the team and allow them to use my ideas so that no divisions over this vote are caused. I have yet to be approached for details, but I am very willing to give them when asked by anyone who is interested.
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Post by BALLS OF STEEL on Feb 1, 2013 10:01:47 GMT -5
This remains to be decided. The only certainty is that they will not be deleted.
The reason for the poll is not that we think the decision is right or wrong, but that we simply dont know. We are allowing you, the players, to participate in the running of the server. This is a major decision and many people have a lot invested into their characters, we would like to give everyone a fair and equal chance to have their opinions heard. A democractic decision is best here as it involves the direct interests of all players.
As it happens, the items that will replace the ones we are removing are vastly superior, but this decision is not a matter of right or wrong choice, but of public opinion.
I fail to see how this is relevant, as every member of the server team is also a player and also has a vested interest in the outcome of the poll.
Going by the month prior to the server shutdown, the number of votes has already exceeded the average daily traffic
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Post by Avvy on Feb 1, 2013 10:53:56 GMT -5
XKCD as has been stated multiple times. This is to get input on the idea. This isn't the end all on the matter. It's just to gauge people's reactions, address concerns and see if we can come up with something that everyone could like.
It is not just about the item removal. It is about making the playing field a little more even from the start. There will be ways to gain XP to start you off /if/ we go the start over route.
Yes, we would be storing the character files elsewhere on the computer.
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Post by xkcdapostle on Feb 1, 2013 13:56:59 GMT -5
The reason for the poll is not that we think the decision is right or wrong, but that we simply dont know. We are allowing you, the players, to participate in the running of the server. I fail to see how this is relevant, as every member of the server team is also a player and also has a vested interest in the outcome of the poll. Given the above quotes, I assure you that the relevance is significant. This vote is supposedly allowing players that do not have a hand in the running of the module to decide. Not the server team, whom already manage the server in their roles, to voice their opinions. I simply am expressing the view that the server team should abstain from this poll, so that they can get a fair and impartial vote from the players who do not currently contribute as a registered team member to the module. Going by the month prior to the server shutdown, the number of votes has already exceeded the average daily traffic I am simply asking that the Team be aware that any decision reached from the vote of a small number of players; will not be one they should support unless they get a proportion of all the players on here to justify it. It is not just about the item removal. It is about making the playing field a little more even from the start. Then if this was about starting from scratch, why only mention that the team is essentially wiping the server vault for a new vault item generator system? Mentioning it now simply sounds like the poll is for two things. I’d say that a separate poll should be made to separate the issue of restarting our characters to start afresh from the issue of whether to remove items from the old system from characters in the server vault. Since no one should vote with one of the issues in mind over the other. It would allow the concerns of the players to be more transparent. Allowing us to also focus discussion on the matter rather than confuse the issue due to unclear voting options. |
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Post by BALLS OF STEEL on Feb 1, 2013 14:53:02 GMT -5
I intend to do just that after the conclusion of this poll. Admittedly, the poll options are somewhat misleading in that effect.
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